Forever 2011

[CreaMD__]

I saw those photos. It\'s nothing new. We know about the other guy. MikeZt saw him and also shouted at him to get out or behave. He knows about the both guys.

Once again and for the last time. Mike/Zeroteam. The organizer. It\'s not just some guy. He is an organizer. Saw everything what happened. I don\'t have any reason not to believe organizer especially after he clearly described what happened. Kisiel broke divIDE of Logout. He doesn\'t remember because he was drunk. The end of story.

Roman

[leming__]

fair enough Roman, it only just looks a bit suspicious that you did not tell Kisiel there and then. He finds out about this after party. Isnt that weird? He was there at the party place till Sunday noon. Kisiel is not just \'some guy\' to us and we find it difficult to believe that he would do anything like this - we have known him and met him at parties for number of years so this just does not add up. Nevertheless its a party and you allow people to drink a bit of booze and we\'d expect someone to get a bit carried away. I suggest next time you organize a party to state that its for people that drink ORANGE JUICE. That way you won\'t have any drunks - avoids problems!
If it was an accident all the party people should have known THERE AND THEN and maybe chip in and collect some money to cover the cost of damages. You don\'t tell people there was a problem after they have gone home. This is the main problem I think that should have been dealt with Kisiel THERE, he didnt even know he has damaged some stuff (wether he did or not its a different story).

[booker__]

                   

leming napisal:

fair enough Roman, it only just looks a bit suspicious...

It\'s way too suspicious and not fair enough, m\'kay

[Kisiel]

ok robie upka filmiku z party, prosze o zero komentow. Zadam pytanie CreamD na CSDB, ok? ETL 1h08m

PS. w dziesiatej sekundzie slychac strzaly

PPS. jak ja zaluje ze napierdalalem w szkole kamieniami kiedy byl angielski.

[booker__]

                   

kisiel napisal:

PS. w dziesiatej sekundzie slychac strzaly

To pierdy byly, Atarowskiej Koneksji (zorganizowanej).

[zielok__]

                   

kisiel napisal:

PPS. jak ja zaluje ze napierdalalem w szkole kamieniami kiedy byl angielski.

Miales angielski w szkole? Cooool

[Kisiel]

mialem, liczebnikow mnie nauczyli... wiec liczyc potrafie potem na studiach... i teraz prywatnie.. ehh

[CreaMD__]

                   

leming napisal:

fair enough Roman, it only just looks a bit suspicious that you did not tell Kisiel there and then. He finds out about this after party. Isnt that weird? He was there at the party place till Sunday noon. Kisiel is not just \'some guy\' to us and we find it difficult to believe that he would do anything like this - we have known him and met him at parties for number of years so this just does not add up. Nevertheless its a party and you allow people to drink a bit of booze and we\'d expect someone to get a bit carried away. I suggest next time you organize a party to state that its for people that drink ORANGE JUICE. That way you won\'t have any drunks - avoids problems! If it was an accident all the party people should have known THERE AND THEN and maybe chip in and collect some money to cover the cost of damages. You don\'t tell people there was a problem after they have gone home. This is the main problem I think that should have been dealt with Kisiel THERE, he didnt even know he has damaged some stuff (wether he did or not its a different story).

First of all. What is suspicious? That the guy who trashed the stuff was banned? Why would we do it if we weren\'t sure about this? Nobody asks anything from him. We didn\'t as him to pay expenses or anything. BAN was quite strict reaction, and when I first learned about it I needed more info. So I got it from Ellvis who wasn\'t there, and came later only to learn what happened. Then later MikeZT wrote a long email about what happened, I\'m now assured that he deserves this. Especially because of the fact, that all Ksiel can reply is, it wasn\'t me, you lie, \"there will be consequences\", whatever...  

I know from my own experience that even when I\'m more or less decent person who have respect of their friends, when I was drunk I did things I don\'t remember. Like climbing the plant in restaurant.. and later telling them take me to the room.. they didn\'t realise my consciousnes is shut down. They thought I\'m regularly drunk. This can happen to anyone who drinks too much too fast. Even the sweetest and most decent geniuses. You guys really think that US, organisers are such idiots to destroy our reputation by inventing stories,? Why would we do it? What would we gain from punishing some random person?

We vere always very tolerant towards any boozing on the place. Only rule we tried to enforce stronger was no smoking at the place. I remember torn off shakira head in Somer club.., who cares. But when someone messes up with property of other scenrers, that is too much. We want people to control themselves. That doesn\'t mean they can\'t drink and have good mood.

You are right about the fact that it\'s much better to solve things directly on the party. Although that doesn\'t save the person from embarassement either. What is most important in this case (for me) are 2 things. First one. People should be aware of the fact that this party is made by people among them, who aren\'t rich enough tho pay everything from their pocket. Imagine if someone broke that big projector we had this year. We would have to pay for that for years.  Second thing is. One should accept the responsibility.

Nobody asks Ksiel to pay anything.. he already managed to upset Logout so much that he have decided not to bring his equipment to party next year,... also Ksiel managed, that we have this silly debate and that some people claim that we are not fair. Ellvis is so much upset, that yesterday I called him he threatened me of quiting organising if I will continue to bother him with all this crap.

For us, it was always harder to decide \"not to organise\" than to keep going..  but it is very thin line... do you guys think we owe you anything? That we should serve you? Let you do anything on the place , keep our mouths shut and do this every year? I know thousand of better things how to waste time than doing a party for people who think that we are bunch of idiots.

[Kisiel]

Ok, please wait for movie. I\'d like to ask you some question... of course as translator
For me it\'s strange that your friends didn\'t ask me for money, but some one promised me that I will not on FOREVER again, during the party

PS. For me is better if you answer my question with short version, because I have problems to get your point.

[leming__]

Roman, I still cant work out why would you not talk to Kisiel directly at the party. This bit makes me/us confused and suspicious. I understand and appreciate the fact that you use your personal time to organize the event but thats not where the problem is. You did not tell anybody about this at the party, Kisiel found out when he got back home - this bit just makes no sense. If I see damage to my equipment I raise voice at the time or the moment I find out not 2 days later.

Anyway I think it makes no sense to discuss this further as its not going anywhere. If thats what you guys decided and you are 100% sure the damage was made by Kisiel then fair enough - ban him, I personally think its very unlikely that Kisiel did it deliberately - Also I see no reason in you accusing innocent person but again the issue should have been solved at the party place with everyone around not after the party.

[Kisiel]

tej bedzie szybciej jak mnie w koncu posluchacie, i poczekacie na fakty, oni nadal mysla ze ja bylem tak najebany ze nic nie pamietam Nie moglem chodzic itp.
Jak narazie to uslyszalem pomowienia bez zadnych faktow, widzial ktos zjebany sprzet? Kiedy to sie stalo dokladnie? Kto rozpierdolil sprzet i wini mnie? Czy sprzet jest rozpierdolony?
Sprawa nie mogla sie wyjasnic wlasnie z tych powodow.

[CreaMD__]

                   

kisiel napisal:

Ok, please wait for move. I\'d like to ask you some question... of course as translator For me it\'s strange that your friends didn\'t ask me for money, but some one promised me that I will not on FOREVER again, during the party

Ellvis gave you BAN. Thats all I know. That\'s what he has done. I was checking why he did it. When I learned what happened and how you are responding to that, I came to conclusion, that in the end you deserve it.

[Kisiel]

ok would you find answers to my questions on CSDB?

[CreaMD__]

                   

leming napisal:

Roman, I still cant work out why would you not talk to Kisiel directly at the party. This bit makes me/us confused and suspicious. I understand and appreciate the fact that you use your personal time to organize the event but thats not where the problem is. You did not tell anybody about this at the party, Kisiel found out when he got back home - this bit just makes no sense. If I see damage to my equipment I raise voice at the time or the moment I find out not 2 days later. Anyway I think it makes no sense to discuss this further as its not going anywhere. If thats what you guys decided and you are 100% sure the damage was made by Kisiel then fair enough - ban him, I personally think its very unlikely that Kisiel did it deliberately - Also I see no reason in you accusing innocent person but again the issue should have been solved at the party place with everyone around not after the party.

Ellvis took responsibility for this. I don\'t know why he didn\'t find time to talk to Ksiel. Of course he has been sleeping whole saturdays.. woke up during compos.. later on sunday he probably didn\'t have time.. or mood for that. We are just people.. I don\'t see into his head. Everyone has his own ways. I can\'t do anything else than accept it.

I\'m also 100% sure that he didn\'t do it deliberately. And between you and me, I also thought that ban was harsh solution. Until I learned about all this flame. I found no sympathy for Ksiel. I tried, but I didn\'t find any.

[CreaMD__]

I won\'t. I already told you everyhing I learned. And  I can only repeat that organizer MikeZT is 100% reliable source. Very serious guy.

going to pub now
roman